Deep Dive 7: twitch streaming

Tyler: I want that to happen
Greg: guys.
Ryan: Gosh,
Greg: You guys seem to be playing crucible and I can be like
Ryan: I still haven't heard a clean,
Greg: you fisted him Guardian.
Ryan: I haven't heard a clean fucking audio clip of shacks losing his fucking mind. It's always like covered in like all the explosions, everything that's going on. I
Greg: sure. They have the isolated one

Ryan: isolated clip of shacks losing his shit over the massive triple kill. You just I'm one of those
Tyler: do you like Brooks rivers Perhaps small bodies of water
Ryan: that's the only reason
Tyler: I stare at them I get the same but today specifically we are talking about not Brooks not rivers not gullies might be the wrong thing but streams specifically convulsing streams I mean Twitch streams
Ryan: Good
Tyler: So
Ryan: I knew we would get there
Tyler: did you though um so not too long ago we talked about how Twitch was running their massive DMCA take down issues because people had music streaming So it went through what the past 10 years of a video on demands or VODs whatever you want to call them and started just pulling down
Ryan: There's no warning These videos were just pulled from the Twitch libraries uh of any streamer did not matter who you were if you had a video that met there Well cause they they received a letter from the DMCA Um that said Hey you have videos that have copyrights seven it get rid of them They just went and got rid of him They didn't care what it was And they sent out a letter saying Hey to all of the Twitch streamers said Hey if you have more videos like this you better get rid of them because we're gonna
Tyler: Right And a lot of those people you have those for revenue it drives traffic it brings Um and Twitch just went too bad so sad Get rid of them And there's also by the way get rid of the rest because those are probably going to go down too with when with no way to appeal them with no way to do anything It was just gone That is it So we need to understand that that happened
Greg: Oh I do
Tyler: Good good
Ryan: you understand All right good
Tyler: so Twitch also has the ability so you can be a streamer you can be an affiliate and you can be a partners kind of the bigger names affiliate There's thousands of people that are affiliates but generally if you're a an affiliate you have at least 50 followers over the last 30 days and have at least Or I over the last three days I have at least 500 total minutes broadcast seven unique broadcast days and an average of three or more current current viewers So you need to kind of just show that all right you're at least fairly serious about doing this and that opens up the ability to earn money um get tips like subscriptions all that Just kind of get your your toes in the water for for building revenue on on Twitch So that takes take some doing it's not particularly easy to garner an audience like that So did you need to what's the Morgan Twitch has also partnered with a a a music label uh called monster cat monster
Greg: Okay First before you go on is it cat with a Sierra K Oh thank God
Tyler: No they're not monsters Um They are cats though Um so monster cat um for the life of me just going over there uh artists I didn't recognize any of them at least not from this year Um but that's not to say they're not important I don't know Um but so Twitch partnered with monster cat to allow their library of music To be played and there's going to be no issue because Twitch effectively is already licensing that out
Ryan: Right
Tyler: so far mostly all well and good The issue that comes up is in their partnership with Twitch there is a monster Kat gold subscription What that allows you to do is you can basically download in the stream a bunch of stuff from monster cat artists Add music to your Twitch and YouTube streams
Ryan: things won't be copier it's
Tyler: right Which is solid right The part that people are pissed about
Greg: Is it all poker
Tyler: Yes It's all it's all aggressive death polka
Greg: one test out this publisher We were like Oh my God
Tyler: Um no it is by paying $5 a month You are instantly added to affiliate
Ryan: which means you are now eligible to get subscriptions and monetize your your streams and all that
Tyler: Something that a lot of people feel Twitch should be offering for free Anyway
Greg: Right
Ryan: I mean at the same time though I get why they do I get why I get why they do it the way they do it I get why they won't offer it right off the bat for free Because then you have people that are just muddying the water people who are just doing it for a one-off uh w but then you have the people who are like like Jamie like I want this to be my income I want to do this for a living Those people do what they do well So I kind of get where they're coming from where they don't want You don't want just anybody to be able to start making money off of this stuff Like you want people who care about it to do it
Tyler: So two two parts to do questions to that I guess one like it it's like having the one-offs and stuff You can't because you need a concurrent viewership over 30 days And to Why shouldn't just anyone it If they meet that criteria why not Why why is it that you're now charging money to earn affiliate where people are working and creating and oftentimes pulling like 12 hour streams just pulling crazy crazy amounts of
Greg: right Cause you said they said it was 500 hours or 50 hours Sorry
Tyler: Is that what it was I
Ryan: I I don't remember what the number is by doing that There's a minimum amount of hours Um but see I'm I'm not for Uh keeping both I personally think you shouldn't get affiliate status for paying $5 a month for the gold subscription
Tyler: Yeah So now
Ryan: they have those guidelines in place And I think the guidelines are difficult to get but far from attainable And if you're able to actually get them then you are serious about doing it and you at that point you should be able to do it Cause at that point you're going to have something of a fan basically something to make it worth it You know what I mean
Tyler: Yeah So that you need to basically stream for 8.3 hours in a month
Ryan: which really isn't hard Me And you were doing that back when we were doing some streaming
Tyler: Uh only screw about three and a half hours a day
Ryan: 8.3 hours a
Greg: Yeah And if I was going to capitalize on that I would pay five bucks and then I would just stream like an X-Box update that I was
Ryan: 8.3 hours a month is not
Tyler: True Yeah no Um my math is really bad Um so you do have to stream a
Ryan: a little bit
You have to stream I mean you basically have to stream at least once a week for a couple hours like in order to be able to to meet that one requirement because there's others too You have to have
Tyler: right You have to be good I mean you have to be good at you have to get to pull in
Ryan: you have to pull in audience members you have to pull in um
Tyler: an average of three or more concurrent viewers
Ryan: Amen for somebody just starting out That is tough And that means that you have to have it Doesn't have to be the same viewers but you have to have at least three or four viewers for every single time you see Right Which can be difficult
Tyler: So like with that if you're playing the game you can post a link kind of below the things If you buy the game you get a cut or people buy the game through your stream You now get a cut of it Which at that point is something I feel like you should get a cut
Ryan: You should get a cut of that regardless because that's something that somebody basically come to you and said Hey I'll give you a link People buy the link you post it for me you put it up make it a part of your stream I will give you money for that That's how that should be
Tyler: right And people have to earn their way to it So
Ryan: But that also shouldn't be affiliated by Twitch That should be done between Uh the retailers and the person but I understand that Twitch needs to get their hands on it So
Tyler: Right And that that's a button like kind of built in through Twitch and all that Now they're I don't know the guidelines on like posting like Amazon affiliate links like that things that do give you money through links I don't know the rules on that I'm not sure if they're super fond of it but I'm not sure if they also really care Um So you you can get subscriptions So affiliates you have to be affiliated to get subscriptions I don't think is necessary If someone's willing to pay to see your content Why is it that you have to be affiliated
Ryan: I agree with that Whether you're affiliated or not I think what affiliating should do is allow for tips tips in the stream because then I could see where it's like okay you don't want to be tipping any Joe Schmo because then you're going to have a lot of people that can game the system by doing that Um subscriptions are different though I agree If somebody is willing to pay money to subscribe to your Stream channel That should be something that should be able to be done regardless of what you have because say we streamed once and we had a couple of people that are like man that was awesome I want to know when they stream again maybe we weren't going to do it very often but it's like Oh Hey we just got like what like 10 bucks from these people who subscribed to us They want to see us again Let's do it again
Tyler: And yeah I agree with that And I think even to that point I think people should be able to tip whoever as well maybe maybe you don't stream very often Maybe it's like Hey I'm on here streaming for the day Not on here very often Don't know when I'm going to be back but if you like what you see can tip by all means feel free whatever Cause you can tip with the bits through the thing Engage in the chat more get different perks that way So it's less of a commitment at that point Like here it's like it's effectively like street performing at that point Like alright here you go I'm going to pay you for what I saw here What I'm not going to care you with me and like pay a subscription Like I'm not
Ryan: And that's I guess I get your point on that too I don't know I understand what they're trying to accomplish with the affiliate At least maybe how it started uh the affiliate program I think I understand what they were getting at but you do bring up some solid points where the for the one-off person who's just trying to catch us a stream Maybe maybe looking specifically for somebody nobody's nobody's heard of yet wants to get on that But early and they like Hey I like you And they want to support you I get where you're coming from with that that it would make sense for it to be a free option for new streamers
Tyler: So and people are pissed because now there are plenty of people who have worked hard to build that audience And someone slaps a crisp fiver down now
Ryan: they're good to go
Tyler: he'll tell you what you could pay for it You could pay five bucks just to enable the stuff on your channel and stream ones or twice
Ryan: you know you don't ever have to actually stream again technically
Tyler: that's it
Ryan: you're an affiliate
Tyler: Yeah So people are not fond of Twitch because they they bungled the The DMCA takedown they are now letting people skip in line just to gain affiliate access Um
Greg: If that's the case I think they should bump up everybody else One level
Ryan: Well they only had the two levels
Greg: Oh was it just to
Ryan: was affiliate and partner
Greg: create more levels come up
Ryan: Yeah I mean at that point though would it be a paid service What are you going to get for it
Greg: Well you'll have to pay more for it
Ryan: Well you don't have to pay anything right now The affiliate technically speaking if you earn it through Twitch you don't have to pay for the affiliate It's something that's you're you're given you have to obviously apply for it and they approve your channel based off it But I don't think there's a cost for
Tyler: No So yeah as a creator you're not directly paying for it I mean obviously if you get money Twitch's taking
Greg: Oh right They're taken out
Ryan: But you don't have to like you as a content creator do not have to subscribe to the affiliate program through Twitch Once you meet these requirements you now have the option to with monster Kat which is what people are pissed about
Greg: But I think that this also is like sort of the age old thing And we saw this in cell phones It's the old you know well what have you done for me lately You know where you give all these great new deals to new people And you're like well I've been I've been doing this for years What am I getting And you're like our fabulous customer service
Tyler: Right Like but you the the standard boiler plate as well you've helped like especially with Twitch I've had to be like well you're the people who helped shape this community to let allow it become what lives without you We wouldn't be here here And all I can think is just the BP parody that South park is I'm sorry And they just don't care And it's it's wild to see because what they couldn't do Instead of partnering with monster cat and allowing people to pay $5 to gain affiliate Like honestly they could just take affiliate off of that and it's fine
Ryan: Yeah If you remove if you just take off the affiliate tag Nobody's going to care just remove the affiliate Cause people are at first I'm sure people were paying the $5 because Monstercat probably gave you extra stuff like an extra additional premium library or whatever with better content That's probably what people started paying it for They realized you got affiliate with it It's like okay well now people are just buying it for affiliate It works out really well for monster cat because it's an incentive to spend five I mean $5 is not a lot of money every month at least for most people But Yeah If you just remove the the affiliate
Tyler: cause it's a cool it's a cool service I again I'm not super familiar with their music but
Ryan: with everything that's going on with the DMTA stuff It's awesome that there are services like that where you can have background music now And in theory it won't be taken down because there's been a lot of instances especially lately where uh stuff that people have created themselves Is being taken down
Tyler: Yeah no that happens from time to time but like they do say even on monster cat's website they say like content creators safe music content creators save options Even if you use multiple channels don't fear DMCA strikes You can monetize your content claim free on Twitch and YouTube after they mentioned being affiliate
Ryan: thing is pretty awesome But yes after they mentioned the affiliate program
Tyler: So like it
can't you can't loop them Like you can't loop one particular track for like an hour 10 and you can't just
Ryan: so you just have to make a playlist and play through the playlist
Tyler: can't all you can't alter their tracks You can't like boost like bass boost them
Ryan: I mean that's fair I feel like that's kind of standard really is like just don't do the do's and don'ts of
Greg: music is mostly just there to be in the background
Ryan: right Nobody's going to uh Right Nobody's going to a stream where somebody's playing like GTA or call of duty or whatever for the music in the background
Tyler: Right which is I I do And I don't like this all at the same time Because I don't like the the precedent that it sets of like Oh well you can just pay for the licensing rights if you're background music Like but the content the things I'm doing this are the game there
Ryan: People are not coming for this If people were coming for the music that makes sense I'm generating money off of your music People are coming for me and the game Why do I have to pay you Like I could usually do this without you
Tyler: Right I think at that point games should just have like a streaming option Like just put royalty free music Obviously the experience won't be as good most likely because you're not then curating this soundtrack like GTA last bunch of them
Ryan: all all six of the GTA five releases have been super good
Tyler: but that's not going to fly in the stream
Greg: So do you think that what are the odds that they pull out that subscription portion for the bump up because of the blow back
Ryan: I don't I don't see Twitch doing that at all They've never been one to handle blow back from the community Well I don't think
Tyler: It's it's going to be interesting because
Greg: I wonder if the if you see an Exodus of older streamers make a new platform
Ryan: That'd be tough in this day and
Greg: so what you saw with parlor People pissed off with the Facebook made parlor So why don't you know people who are pissed off with Twitch Call it Mitch play on
Tyler: No no
Greg: That doesn't work
Ryan: it doesn't at all
Greg: Hi I'm Mitch Oh
Tyler: we're just here on Mitch
Ryan: That's not good Thanks for joining me with me
Tyler: don't forget to press the hitch button
Ryan: Oh God
Tyler: get hitched to our channel
Ryan: Maybe we should make that
Tyler: It's done Mitch
Ryan: hitched on Mitch
Tyler: Um but so I don't I don't think I don't see Twitch backing down from this because it's clearly it's clearly a partnership deal They signed with monster cat
Ryan: yeah There's no way that monster catches did this Willy nilly
Greg: True
Ryan: Twitch just was like sure go for it Like no no no This was
Greg: I'd have to cancel the whole deal
Ryan: This was worked out They're not going to get rid of
Tyler: they knew so this this was this was not an over the weekend thing
Ryan: They prepared for this
Tyler: weeks if not months in planning Um
Ryan: The thing is though I also feel like yes they have I have a ton of people they've worked so hard for getting the affiliate status the natural way I'll call it uh through Twitch But I feel like there's so many more new content creators where they're going to overshadow all of like you hear about all of the people being upset Like if you can pay for this service now blah blah blah blah blah Because they're very they're very successful They've cultured they've cultivated this this audience that they bring in every time they stream all this and that but all the new people are going to be so loud about it because they're new and now they feel like they can actually start out and get something worth it You know it makes it worth it for them to really work the grind to make it successful
Tyler: Yeah And I I am worried that this is going to be a bit of a slippery slope So on one hand do we see Twitch increase Do we see Twitch add affiliate levels Like okay
Greg: break up the affiliate level So the people that are paying are getting an affiliate level but it's like affiliate two and everyone
Ryan: entry affiliate
Greg: Right Where it's
Tyler: where does that take the monetization in order to get to affiliate to down the line Does that cost then 10 bucks a month
Ryan: So here's what
Greg: don't I don't think you charge above the first tier you make you know the the top two tiers now out of the three tiers you know achievement based Hey if you want to pay five bucks to try to get your foot in the door you still have to make Content and still maintain or do something meet these requirements Um and if you don't we'll take it away But you know especially in an era where people are struggling and they're at home it might be cool to try it out But yeah I I feel like you still have to work for it Like you you you know if you're going to pay the five bucks great But you still don't get what These you know everybody else gets that work to it but you get something And if it's a if this was an entry for you and race down some barriers great you can now work towards the top too but yeah to to incentivize it for new people without giving everybody else something is unfair to those people who built you but that goes back to they're in a very corporate mindset They don't give off
Ryan: So you here's the way I actually I see it going one of two ways One As a quote unquote respond to the backlash They're going to do exactly that They're going to add additional content for true affiliates of Twitch ones who did not pay for the subscription So I see that happening I also see them removing the non-paid option and just making it So if you want to stream on Twitch it's four 99 a month and that's just what it is You're an affiliate you're streaming You can earn money do all this and that But at once you have to reach these requirements and you are bumped up or you're given an option to buy the next tier up or whatever it is or I just foresee them keeping it where you have a free option where if you just want to stream you can earn it yourself So they they can get around it that way you can earn it If you meet these requirements I don't think they require are going to change at all for the initial affiliate but there will be another tier it's probably going to be more expensive but you can also earn that one I do see that happening
Tyler: And on the other side of the coin there is this going to make it standard for like record labels and stuff to partner with streaming services and charge people money to use any of their music at all Because it's a it's a very it's a very aggressive approach So I got one hand So I I believe in musicians and creators getting paid Totally understand that I'm not saying they shouldn't
Ryan: Absolutely
Tyler: But I think this is the wrong the wrong fight to pick Um um I think I think the the fight to pay cause with streaming services paying more but I think if people are listening to music in the background that's literally people just enjoying the music Not necessarily bringing people in again if it's like a DJ stream or like a like a party stream whatever very very different payloads charges people licensing
Ryan: because they're actually using it to generate money
Tyler: So I don't know I don't necessarily like the idea of other labels like charging people for like background
Ryan: and I I'm kind of in the same boat as you because I agree a creator should get paid for the content that they create but there is this gray area here where people aren't coming for the music necessarily If they're coming for what's going on on the screen the background music everybody knows is just there to fill The lack of noise when there's nothing happening on the screen or whatever
Greg: this might seem over simplified but why aren't you know record companies just asking for a portion of all sales from
Ryan: I think in a
Greg: could be leading to that because now they're going to have so much more revenue with this subscription service that they can pay the recording labels too
Ryan: And I think that's ultimately what this is because they don't want to pay a portion of what they're currently making because that eats into profits They want to they're like here here's this new thing you pay this we pay you a portion of these profits Everybody's making more money in the end
Tyler: So here's the kicker That's effectively what Facebook is already doing with their Facebook gaming They partnered with let's see universal music group Warner music group Sony music entertainment Kobalt music group BMG publishing Merlin and others To just use music in your live stream
Ryan: See that's pretty dope But do you have to pay for this service or does Facebook just say Hey we're paying for it Go nuts that's the way it should be In my opinion I don't believe this should be a service Like you want a really good creator to come to your streaming service to generate more people to come and try and stream and make you money Because you're already taking a cut of subscriber money tip money all of that You should be offering this service to your content creators free of charge
Tyler: So Facebook is saying it's only for your live streams and the VODs
Ryan: That's fair A hundred
Greg: but that's where the crux of the issue
Ryan: right Is is for the streaming
Tyler: which is fine They're saying you can't just upload content to it They're not
Ryan: I'm okay with
Tyler: And they say there has to be gameplay There has to be things you can't just DJ again kind of what we already covered
Ryan: Totally Because at that point again people are coming for the music That's what they're trying to avoid
Tyler: Right Like it it the it's wild because weirdly enough Facebook in this very isolated incident
Ryan: Facebook is nailing it
Tyler: Um and because just as a reminder Amazon owns Twitch They have the capital to make this work
Ryan: totally do
Tyler: They're just
Ryan: Correct They've seen an opportunity for money to be made
Greg: would
Tyler: so
Ryan: fucking bayzos man It really is though Ultimately when you think about it because there's there is money to be made here you know whether we want to admit it or not it's a business at the end of the day and there's an opportunity to increase profits
Tyler: I think there was there were a lot of rumors that it was going to be a thing I think this opens the door perfectly for Spotify is competitor in the space Mixer already collapsed Microsoft went down with it
Greg: I mean Spotify adding a streaming element I mean yeah I mean they they would just have to augment whatever licenses they currently have which they're pros at because that's what they
Ryan: they already yeah They already pay for licenses for it
Tyler: building a music player to the stream So it'll already know what you're playing how to get that going integrate that with the viewer count
Ryan: Spotify is in a prime position to do something like that If they wanted to if they launched a streaming service I bet it would take off
Tyler: They already so in theory Uh I don't know if he does but say for example Joe Rogan could live stream his podcasts on Spotify
Ryan: because he has the exclusive deal with Spotify
Tyler: Yep Um so it would be interesting not I mean it I don't know if it'd be good or bad because Spotify is not the greatest about paying their creators but it it would be
Ryan: certainly open the door And I feel like as long as Spotify did it the way Facebook is doing it or make it throw the caveat on there where you will get the free library for streaming If you already have a Spotify membership for yourself
Tyler: I mean even then if you're going to get like a um you have the you have the free you have the premium
Ryan: supported the than the premium with no
Tyler: They do like a content creator level where Spotify is what 10 bucks right now content I think it's like 10 bucks We'll say it's 10 bucks for say arguments Argument Say content creator levels like 12 bucks 13 bucks maybe 15 at that point So it it's again
Ryan: I mean and that's fair I would like to see it included in the person membership but I wouldn't I wouldn't be against necessarily a content creator level just to be like Hey the library's
Greg: Well I don't know if I do something pretend you know cause I think Spotify has a couple levels right They have a couple levels of membership There's like
Ryan: they have the the free with ad support Then they have a premium
Greg: I think about that Cause they could potentially let's say they go $5 more and say Hey all of these streams that we're offering come in this the ultimate membership and it's $5 more a month Uh but you have access to our entire library of original content streams et cetera et cetera et cetera So that
Ryan: Are you saying for the consumer level or for the
Greg: for the consumer So it's still as a creator It's still free It's still doing all that but what where Spotify is making the money is charging $5 more to have people have people have access to the library and get a few big names in there to come over from Twitch Um and that way they're making five bucks more for pers per person And they're not taking anything away from the creators that are charging the creators more
Ryan: and and here's the the other thing that you could do with that So Spotify is actively supported by ads for it's free members You could run a package for content creators where if you're playing music from a Spotify library it'll play an ad and you will earn ad revenue based off of the viewers on your thing And you get a cut and Spotify takes the rest of it and you don't have to pay for licenses
Greg: Well it could be even that anybody that has the free version of Spotify without support can access the streams with ads And if you pay the extra five bucks you can access the streams no ads and the music with no
Ryan: and the creator will get a cut of revenue generated from the ads
Greg: Right So it works for both parties I don't like when when I see things that only benefit the company itself and not the people because then eventually you're just taking advantage of that labor But something like that might work because you're it's benefiting both
Ryan: Yeah Both parties Spotify has got their licenses covered the creators make a little bit of money
Greg: consumer When I see something fair like that I'm more willing to buy it because I'm like okay this seems like
Ryan: Everybody's benefiting the consumers benefit They're getting the content that they want They're already there They're clearly okay With the ads they're not paying for the service Does the creators making money and doing what they want to do
Greg: look out for uh uh um a potential small streaming company that Spotify that is like in the dumps that Spotify could buy you know so
Ryan: Pick it up They already have the network and everything
Greg: away Sure There's there's a you know many you know smaller streaming companies that have a good model but just can't compete and Spotify just yeah it comes in and picks them up and they already have that all set for
Tyler: Yeah And then at this point they could they could market it as like hassle-free DMC
Ryan: Yeah Cause at this point Spotify effectively not owns but you're not going rent to a license issue I'm sure Spotify would then have to revisit the licenses for all the music to ensure that it's going to meet whatever But But that's on Spotify at that point to handle I mean they have the capital to do whatever
Greg: We would you know you'd probably have to get some kind of algorithm that runs as well that makes sure that all the music that it's hearing in the background is part of that library that they have
Ryan: right
Tyler: that's why I'm saying like use the um have like a music player built in have the algorithm checking like all right What's playing here Is that what I hear in the background Dope And that's it
Ryan: Yeah That's really all you
Greg: gentlemen By Spotify and do
Ryan: or sell this idea to them I think that's a better idea
Tyler: Yeah no no no no Yeah I think
Ryan: that that binds Spotify
Greg: tank Why are you guys here We want you to help us by Spotify That's it That's all we got
Tyler: make strong eye contact Mark We can do it buddy
Ryan: We need to buy Spotify I have a billion dollar
Greg: across the streams
Ryan: and I don't want them to have it
Tyler: Aye All right So you know I did have a spare $46 billion just scorching a hole right through my
Ryan: Have I got news for you I have a once in a lifetime opportunity to double your money
Greg: see what Spotify is worth Oh you did What
Tyler: $46 billion
Greg: He can do it
Tyler: and so
Ryan: He he totally could
Tyler: you can buy a couple a
Greg: How much he
Ryan: He could probably buy like probably for Spotify guys What did you say
Tyler: nothing at all That's so bad
Ryan: us
Tyler: Well I uh I think we've rambled on Quite a bit about the issues that Twitch has having Um Hey if anyone if anyone has the means go ahead and start up a new streaming service and try and get some licensing
Ryan: also that frickin ad sponsored ideas our idea
Tyler: Yeah Try to try to just build a streaming app and start marketing it towards Spotify and loop us in for roughly 4.6 billion We'll take a 10th
Ryan: Yeah I mean that'd be fine I'm happy with you Happy with that The 10th All right Yeah we will We'll cut a deal Mega work Our people will not contact your people cause we don't know who you are yet
Tyler: so gentlemen in one streaming service say goodbye to the
Ryan: Uh Twitch That's not